Home | Vol 15 Table of Contents | Previous Issues | Contact Us: 07 55278753 / 0405463663 | Email: judybyronbay@yahoo.com
Interviewing Nicola FrostNicola Frost visited Byron Bay briefly at Easter and was interviewed by Judy Shelley for Suara Indonesia Radio Show Bay FM 99.9 broadcasting every Wednesday 2-4pm. Photographs by Tantyo Bangun
J-- Oh, interesting N-- Not just the Indonesians but those people who are interested in the Indonesian community as well. So it includes some political solidarity groups and those people like yourself - interested in the artistic and cultural side of things as well.. The focus so far has been on the way they organize themselves, because it's a huge topic, there is something like 17,000 Indonesians in N.S.W. J-- In Sydney? N-- The majority of them are in Sydney, it's quite a big thing for one person to cope with. That is why I've had to focus things down and one focus has been on the Maluku community who live there. I've had a long ongoing relationship with Maluku and it's people, so it was my automatic instinct to hunt them out when I got here. J-- So you will do a thesis about this subject? N-- Yes that's the idea. I'm also beginning to think now about where to share some of the insights I hope I'll have by then with all the people who are interested, in a bit more of an accessible format. J-- So you'll have to go round and interview people as well, like the Indonesian Community Council and various other organizations and find out how they work together and that sort of thing? N-- Exactly, my work's a combination of interviewing people and just joining in with things that go on in the community. It's really interesting if you go along to the planning meetings for an event and listen to the way the people plan it and get themselves together, and then if you actually go along and see it in action. Then if you interview various people separately about their opinion of what's going on, it builds up a multi-layered picture of what's actually happening. J-- What I was interested in hearing about was your activities with putting on a photography exhibition? N--I came up with the idea of doing it, it's fine to watch other people doing this stuff, but how about you actually have a go at organizing it yourself. Then you really experience what kind of obstacles you come across and what kind of help people will give you. So that was part of it, and the other part of it was I've been working with this photographer whose name is Tantyo Bangun who lives in Jakarta now. Last year we collaborated on a book, which we worked together on and spent about five or six weeks travelling around Indonesia interviewing people. He took the pictures, I wrote the book. J-- Wow, so is that published? N-- It is published, yes and available at all good book shops. J-- So who is the publisher? N-- It's published by Oxfam, but in the U.K. J--So that's Community Aid Abroad? N--That's right, but it's published by Oxfam GB, although you can order it from them, it is distributed here in Australia. J-- Through the Oxfam outlets? N-No, by the Australian distributor for Oxfam G.B agents so you can get hold of it. The idea of the book was just a general introduction to socio-economic political issues for students, interested members of the public and as a briefing for journalists. J-So, issues in Indonesia? N-- Issues in Indonesia, mostly contemporary and mostly from an ordinary persons perspective rather than what the President did and said. J-- What sort of people did you interview?
J-- So you weren't approaching people that were commentators you were approaching just the average citizens? N-- Ordinary folk. J-- Right, okay that's interesting. N-- So, as a result of working on that and really enjoying working with Tantyo, I then came to Australia and was here by the time of the Bali bombing. I thought that Indonesia was just getting a raw deal in the mainstream media in Australia and that it would be really nice to just do something that wasn't politically inspired at all, but just gave Indonesia some more constructive press for once and gave people the opportunity to see another side of Indonesian life, simple as that really. J-- So that's how the idea came about for the exhibition? N-Yes that's right. A selection of photographs from parts of Indonesia which many Australians probably know very little about. So there wasn't really anything from Bali. Very little from Java but lots from some of the outer islands and a mixture of pictures of just ordinary life, and some of traditional ceremonies. A whole variety but from spots that people knew very little about until they came to the exhibition. J-- So what sorts of places were represented? N-- There were several from some Dyak communities in Kalimantan which Tantyo knows very well, he's got a long term relationship with those guys. J-- Sounds like an amazing guy? N-- Yeah, he is a very interesting guy, in his mid 30's, has been working as a professional full time photographer for the last ten years, works particularly for environmental groups like WWW, Oxfam and with other NGO' s as well). J-- There's just so many talented people in Indonesia. N-- He opened my eyes. Everywhere we went in Indonesia he knew about 100 interesting people. He made my life as a researcher very easy. J-- You notice that about people in Indonesia, they really are connected. N-- Absolutely, over hundreds of miles there's connections - there's always links between like-minded people in different areas, and I guess now with email and stuff, its much easier for those folk to stay in touch. J-- So the first exhibition you organized was in Surry Hills? N-- At the Fourth Floor Gallery, which is an artist-run space operating since the middle of last year, I think. J-- With your aim of presenting a more positive Indonesia to the Australian community, did you attract the Australian community into the exhibition? N--I did that in a few different ways, yes, through the usual sort of channels for promoting exhibitions like the newspapers and the Art Almanac, but I also encouraged the Indonesians coming to bring their Australian friends. J-- As I was explaining to this one visitor from Indonesia last year our situation here in Australia is that the mainstream media doesn't actually talk about reality they talk about some sort of impression that they want to give, and focusing on basically very specific negative activities that happen in a country like Indonesia. N-- And then generalize that to the whole thing. J-- Its very clearly and specifically done, its selected information obviously people say "oh, news is always bad news" but its more than that. N-- Its very systematic. J-So, I explained, well our reality is nothing like what's presented in media. So for him, as an Indonesian coming to Australia, I presented to him our reality which was a peace loving community. Many of whom love Indonesia. Many of whom have Indonesian friends and so on, and that we are not isolated from each other, there is a lot of connection happening between Indonesia and Australia, and both sides are being given negative impressions of each other constantly in the Media. This is the reason we put on our events and do our activities here. N-- Yes I think its so important, particularly with a country like Indonesia which is so huge and so hard to generalize about. The media is just very lazy the way it just doesn't bother. You get the impression that Indonesia is completely amorphous and that you can just lump it all together and not worry about thinking too much about where something's happening. J-- There's no sort of analysis of underlying causes of things- its all seen as black and white, there is no background given. N-- If the Melbourne exhibition comes off we're hoping to hold it in the University of Melbourne. It's a beautiful space to have it, so we hope to have a more academic feel to it than the previous one. J-- There is a lot of interest in Melbourne about Indonesia and a lot of support as well, we've done some projects in Melbourne and some tours up the East coast and found that Melbourne was very receptive! N-- That's encouraging. J-- The audiences are very aware and interested in Indonesia and there are a lot of organizations like Asia link that are very involved in supporting events or can help with putting on events or happy to help in any way. N-- That would be really helpful, if it is connected with the University there's also an opportunity to hold workshops and seminars around some of the issues the photos will bring out J-- So you were saying that the exhibition in Melbourne was to focus on Maluku and Ambon? N-- Mainly Ambon. Tanatyo wants to spend 3 weeks shooting intensively in Maluku and if he can travel outside Ambon, he will. J-- So what is happening there now? N-- Things have not been too bad over the last few months. There are isolated incidents but in general, for most people its just a question of trying to get things together and there are still many people who are displaced and haven't been able to go home yet. J-there has there been a lot of devastation in the city N-- the city's a mess. I was there last February for a very brief visit shortly after the second Moleno agreement was signed. People were feeling quietly optimistic at that point and the City was calm, but there's really not much left of it to be honest. The city is still completely segregated into Christian and Muslim sides with very little communication between the two, the local media doesn't do very much to bridge the gap, which is quit sad. J-- I did read an article in Inside Indonesia which was very specific in identifying provocateurs that were sent to instigate this conflagration that occurred in Ambon. Have you heard about that? N-- I don't know many specifics but I do know about those external elements. Its becoming increasingly clear who they were and how it happened. J-- The article stated the names of individual people who were sent from Jakarta who were previously in Suharto's gangs and they were sent to Ambon. N-- Certainly some of my Maluku friends at the time of the Bali bomb were saying that maybe the fallout from this will be that the media looks more carefully at things that have been going on in Indonesia as a way of trying to dig up - what is this Jemaah Islamia On the same week the Laskar Jihad which had been operating in Maluku announced that they are disbanding two or three days before the bomb occurred - there's lots going on and connections to be made. J-- That group in particular was known to have been linked to Suharto in some way and what about Jemaah Islamia? N-- I don't know but its clear there are connections between these organizations. I think one of the positive things to come out of the last year or so has been that the ordinary folk in Maluku are realizing increasingly that this is nothing to do with them and that it is externally generated. They are refusing to be provoked into retaliation by bombs which are placed in the Christian side, For example the Christians are saying - don't expect that we re now going to go running off bombing Muslims because we're just not. We are refusing to be provoked by this because we know we're being manipulated. I think people have been disappointed in the sense that this was an opportunity for people to learn more about what's behind the scenes but it didn't really happen - there was an opportunity but no one took it. J - Well, I don't know that anybody didn't take it, I think that they specifically avoid taking that opportunity because they have there own slant or spin on things and they stick to it the slant. Whatever the reason, whether its internal or external or international basically Bali has had a huge effect on our foreign affairs and has certainly had an effect on our relationship with Indonesia - so somebody benefits from that. N -- It affects all of us, friends of Indonesia…we need to do all that we can do and demonstrate to Indonesians that this is what we feel and that we are really close. J -- That Australia and Indonesia are not enemies that we are all people together. A lot of people in Bali after the bombing felt that Australians would hate them but our community has been sending support to the communities there. Some Balinese people felt that the bombing was trying to insight problems similar to Ambon and they specifically expressed that they didn't want to get into retaliation and chose the peaceful path and chose very strongly not to attack Muslim people, even so it has had a huge effect. N -- Its very difficult to control these effects J -- We might leave it there, is there anything else you would like to say? N-- I'll pass on any more details on Tantyo's exhibiton at the University of Melbourne about September J-Thank you for coming on to our radio show today!
Nicola Frost
Judy Shelley: |
N--
My name is Nichola Frost, I'm from Goldsmith College, from the Anthropology Dept of the University of London. I'm part
way through my PHD, which I'm doing in Sydney, focussing on the
Indonesian community in Sydney.
N--
I did interviews on all kinds of things, I interviewed an organic farmer
in East Java. I also interviewed some people who'd been affected by
an eruption of Gunung Merapi, I interviewed fishermen in Maluku, refugees
or displaced people in Sulawesi, aristocrats in Sumba, tourists in Bali,
a really wide variety of people, just to get some first hand accounts
of experiences of what it's like to live in Indonesia at the moment.
The idea of the book is that's it's very accessible.